Title: Interview with Mile Brceski
Author: Dr. Eric Ferreira Crevels
Year: 2025
Type: Audio Transcript
Licence: Open Access
9 April 2025 – Café Film, Skopje, North Macedonia.
The interview was accompanied by the interviewee’s friend, mediating the talk and simultaneously translating between English and Macedonian. Her translations are not specificized in this document, but they were used to address complicated passages and problematic translations.
Macedonian translations of the questions were given to the interviewee, in writing.
MB: In the first place, there was a competition for the architectural solutions. It was also an open call for architecture. The Archaeological Museum would be made, the theater, to urbanize the part from the Stone Bridge to Kestaran Charshija. The emphasis was placed on the old Turkish bazaar in the center. And in all the places, because the theater is there, everything was open.
EC: Let’s start with your background. Could you tell me a bit about yourself and how did you become an artist? How was your career before your involvement with Skopje 2014?
MB: In 2001 I enrolled in the faculty. As a first-year student I started working on monumental sculptures, one meter, in material. I started sculpting in wood, metal, marble, to carve all materials. I was quite active and present in the faculty’s studios. I was quite active and present in the faculty’s studios. That was its special thing.
[Assistant: Now he works at the faculty.] Unlike some colleagues who found it torturous to be at the faculty, I didn’t have that. For sculpture, still, you need desire and love. Unlike being forced to enroll. Whoever was in sculpture, either you want to work, or you don’t even show up. As a student, I participated in several colonies, in the first one I participated.
Very good place. It was like a small village, Lukov Dol, it’s called. Close to the border with Slovenia.
Close to Rijeka. I think you're more interested as an artist. I think you're more interested in this from an artistic perspective. Perhaps you want to know what it was like to be an artist at the university, specifically as part of Skopje? Whoever was in the department at first, either you want to work, or you don’t even show up. He experimented with different materials and worked in realistic sculptures. And during class, those who were the best in modelling, stood out in the second year of the faculty. They knew me as someone who knew clay well, anatomy.
[Assistant: They know him here also in the second year of university, because he was very good. He was good also when he was 10 years old, because he was my neighbor, and everyone here knows.]
EC: Let’s move on to the second question. - Could you please tell me how did you get involved with the Skopje 2014 project? Can you explain how was the process of getting the commissions and the start of the works?
MB: in 2007 was the first competition. When the call was announced for the production of the fountain of Alexander the Great, made in life size. Models had to be made, only I didn’t compete in that competition. It was in the narrow circle of sculptors. It must be announced a month, a day before it starts. It must start, be reviewed, only because they asked for month, day, I am very small. They gave a month to finish the project, people came to work, but they asked what you were doing for the model, the concept for the fountain.
It’s not enough, then I didn’t apply. But did someone else apply? My colleague applied, with the help of a colleague. Because a horseman figure had to be made. With accompanying elements, soldiers, for the fountain to look like a whole fountain, to make a whole model. That is a big job for one author to compete within a deadline of a month, a day. In the first week you lose time on the daily solution, how it should look.
Minimum 2-3 weeks you need to model something, to cast it in material. It cannot be taken in plasticine or clay. It has to be cast in this material. It’s like in ceramics now. That is ceramics. My mother said you were a professor at Nova. This is my authorship.
This is like an original sketch, for someday, if I get the chance, to make a monumental sketch. That is original work, but it can be made into a large sculpture of 3 meters. If you see the sculpture, you will have the original.
[showing sketch] This is my authorship. This is like an original sketch, for someday, if I get the chance, to make a monumental sketch. That is original work, but it can be made into a large sculpture of 3 meters. If you see the sculpture, you will have the original.
That’s what I did and now I will transform and transform. I will transform it and transform it, so you can be sure that every work is true, because transformation is very... you can edit it and see them.
EC: Okay, thank you very much. We're talking about how you got involved in the project. How you helped colleagues. How was the preparation of the project in which you participated and what was your role?
MB: Together with her assistant, colleague, she called me personally on the phone to ask me if I was available to work on the project.
And I said that I am in Skopje, no problem, what is needed from my side, when can I help. When I entered the room where the work on the fountain was to be done, there was literally nothing, empty. And we started organizing. Digging clay, then we went with carts, miners, shovels, to dig clay. And when we found a big piece of that big lump, we took pictures with the lump. We found one huge lump, a meter-sized one, we couldn’t lift it. Now we put it in the truck.
Now we will work. Everything was improvised, we started finding clay from nature and digging it ourselves. [EC: If you have paper and pen, you can — If you want to sketch something or write it down, you can do it.] Okay. Everything that has relief from the battle of Alexander, that was conceived by the colleague how it should be, and we were the executors to realize her idea.
We were the people who brought that to life. To make it, to make it. We made sketches, construction, and executed it in material. Yes. You were talking about the bronzes, that we didn’t do. I think they were sent somewhere. We worked up to the gypsum model.
Then it is packed on special pallets, in a box and sent to be cast in a foundry. The first project with Alexander lasted 14 months. After that was Philip, the sculpture of Philip. Philip was good to model, everyone applied and so everyone worked. You are talking about all sculptures. All the collection that were sculptures worked in realistic ways, at one point there were 50 sculptors working on the project. With Valentina worked 13 artists, artists and foundry workers.
Some artists, some technical. Philip was active on her projects. Their authorial part. Their authorial part. 50 sculptors. At one point there were 50 sculptors from all of Macedonia. But everyone was talking about Philip.
And I said that I am in Skopje, no problem, what is needed from my side, when can I help. When I entered the room where the work on the fountain was to be done, there was literally nothing, empty. And we started organizing. Digging clay, then we went with carts, miners, shovels, to dig clay. And when we found a big piece of that big lump, we took pictures with the lump. We found one huge lump, a meter-sized one, we couldn’t lift it. Now we put it in the truck.
Now we will work. Everything was improvised, we started finding clay from nature and digging it ourselves. [EC: If you have paper and pen, you can — If you want to sketch something or write it down, you can do it.] Okay. Everything that has relief from the battle of Alexander, that was conceived by the colleague how it should be, and we were the executors to realize her idea.
We were the people who brought that to life. To make it, to make it. We made sketches, construction, and executed it in material. Yes. You were talking about the bronzes, that we didn’t do. I think they were sent somewhere. We worked up to the gypsum model.
Then it is packed on special pallets, in a box and sent to be cast in a foundry. The first project with Alexander lasted 14 months. After that was Philip, the sculpture of Philip. Philip was good to model, everyone applied and so everyone worked. You are talking about all sculptures. All the collection that were sculptures worked in realistic ways, at one point there were 50 sculptors working on the project. With Valentina worked 13 artists, artists and foundry workers.
Some artists, some technical. Philip was active on her projects. Their authorial part. Their authorial part. 50 sculptors. At one point there were 50 sculptors from all of Macedonia. But everyone was talking about Philip.
There were also other sculptures. Yes, there were other sculptures, for other villages, but only one or two.
EC: Were you active on other villages or only in Skopje? .
Everyone has their own personal projects:
Three equestrian figures. Patal Shatev, sitting on a chair. Patal Shatev is a sculpture. 8-meter figure. 8-meter figure. 7.5 meters. 8 meters.
There are also sculptures for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs. On the facade.
Around 80 figures. Yes, and... I don’t know how it is. Some communications agency. Also above there are figures on the facade. These are bronze figures. Marble dust.
They produce the material themselves. Polyester resin. There is marble grit. Marble dust. Dust. Marble. Marble, dust.
Three equestrian figures. Patal Shatev, sitting on a chair. Patal Shatev is a sculpture. 8-meter figure. 8-meter figure. 7.5 meters. 8 meters.
There are also sculptures for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs. On the facade.
Around 80 figures. Yes, and... I don’t know how it is. Some communications agency. Also above there are figures on the facade. These are bronze figures. Marble dust.
They produce the material themselves. Polyester resin. There is marble grit. Marble dust. Dust. Marble. Marble, dust.
EC: And what is the additive?
MB: Like calcite. We mix it. And from that mixture we make sculptures.
Small and big sculptures. The one by Satanasovski [Assistant: he showed me]
See how eccentric he is. You know what he does? Huge sculptures. He cuts them from tin. With paper. Collects paper. Glues paper himself. Huge. Three-meter sculptures.
He says he can climb on them. They’re that strong, though they are thin and long. It’s very interesting to make your own materials. Of course. Of course. Let’s see where it was. Otherwise, I also work with wood. For example, let me show you what I’m working on at the moment.
[showing pictures] Here is the material. Here it’s pigmented with brown and gray pigment. That’s pigment and the material. First a model is made. A mold is taken. And into that mold the polymer can be cast, in our work.
And then we get... The surface. This one we made for Switzerland. For a pastry shop. We made it in Switzerland. Polymer. [shows the photo of how the polymer looks.]
That’s without paint. I think. It can be sanded. Like marble.
Small and big sculptures. The one by Satanasovski [Assistant: he showed me]
See how eccentric he is. You know what he does? Huge sculptures. He cuts them from tin. With paper. Collects paper. Glues paper himself. Huge. Three-meter sculptures.
He says he can climb on them. They’re that strong, though they are thin and long. It’s very interesting to make your own materials. Of course. Of course. Let’s see where it was. Otherwise, I also work with wood. For example, let me show you what I’m working on at the moment.
[showing pictures] Here is the material. Here it’s pigmented with brown and gray pigment. That’s pigment and the material. First a model is made. A mold is taken. And into that mold the polymer can be cast, in our work.
And then we get... The surface. This one we made for Switzerland. For a pastry shop. We made it in Switzerland. Polymer. [shows the photo of how the polymer looks.]
That’s without paint. I think. It can be sanded. Like marble.
EC: Where did the polymer come from? Is it produced in Macedonia?
MB: That’s artificial. Resin — the material. The material I buy from Turkey. There they produce polyester. In Turkey they make polyester resin.
And it comes here and is bought from Turkey. Marble dust is available everywhere, in the marble plant. And the marble dust is bought from Prilep. [Assistant: You're from Prilep, why don’t you work directly in marble?] I can work, yes. I also work directly in marble. You know what the biggest problem is?
The biggest problem is... I should have made myself a studio and I didn’t. I have to ask him why he doesn’t use marble, because in the biggest city, everywhere is marble. That’s very important and not very big. He bought that big place and made a studio there. No, rather in Skopje. Because I ask him why he doesn’t use marble, because he doesn’t have a studio, but he will have and it will be...
If you want to work in stone, you need a big place. Yes, working in stone, that’s very big. That work is very big. It's physically demanding and large-scale work.
I also work with metal. I have a process, I want you to see it, from polymer on YouTube [shows video: link]. Of course, do you want to hear about general things or... Polymer and bronze, that’s just what we used.
And it comes here and is bought from Turkey. Marble dust is available everywhere, in the marble plant. And the marble dust is bought from Prilep. [Assistant: You're from Prilep, why don’t you work directly in marble?] I can work, yes. I also work directly in marble. You know what the biggest problem is?
The biggest problem is... I should have made myself a studio and I didn’t. I have to ask him why he doesn’t use marble, because in the biggest city, everywhere is marble. That’s very important and not very big. He bought that big place and made a studio there. No, rather in Skopje. Because I ask him why he doesn’t use marble, because he doesn’t have a studio, but he will have and it will be...
If you want to work in stone, you need a big place. Yes, working in stone, that’s very big. That work is very big. It's physically demanding and large-scale work.
I also work with metal. I have a process, I want you to see it, from polymer on YouTube [shows video: link]. Of course, do you want to hear about general things or... Polymer and bronze, that’s just what we used.
You start with sketches and progress from there.
For these sculptures, first you have to make a sketch—a small one—then a large one.
The large version is about 5 meters.
But you still start with drawings, a scale model, a maquette...
Then comes the conceptual solution in a small structure.
You give it to the technicians.
The small sculpture is about a meter, and then the technicians enlarge it to 5 meters.
Then it's cast in bronze.
Okay, so that’s the process, in brief.
Here you can see how—let me play it—this is my project.
This is the maquette, 40 cm tall, of Macedonia.
Then you sketch the frame with wire, attach a mesh, and apply clay over it.
Now the modeling process begins—in polymer.
The large version is about 5 meters.
But you still start with drawings, a scale model, a maquette...
Then comes the conceptual solution in a small structure.
You give it to the technicians.
The small sculpture is about a meter, and then the technicians enlarge it to 5 meters.
Then it's cast in bronze.
Okay, so that’s the process, in brief.
Here you can see how—let me play it—this is my project.
This is the maquette, 40 cm tall, of Macedonia.
Then you sketch the frame with wire, attach a mesh, and apply clay over it.
Now the modeling process begins—in polymer.
Yes, this is... This is an improvised oven—it needs to be at 177°C.
The polymer layer should be 1–2 cm thick, similar to how marble is worked—with machines.
Yes, and the idea needs to be translated into the Macedonian context.
If the idea isn’t expressed through drawings or models, it’s just an assumption—a model for the author.
That was also the case with this project—I had a sketch, sent it, and they said, “Looks good, go ahead, start working.”
So the key is in organization—because in art circles, egos dominate.
If you get the project and don’t know how to execute it, no one will help you—not colleagues, unless you're a good manager and collaborator.
There’s no hierarchy—just friendship.
Many colleagues who were assigned monuments called me to come to their studios, whether private or rented, to give feedback—three key observations—because deadlines were short.
A project that should take a year is compressed into three or four months.
That’s why the sculptor often ends up confused or panicking.
Yes—depression pills, moral support—I gave ten years of that plus pills—done.
This year I worked on the Alexander the Great monument with 13 people.
That one wasn’t my project, but I worked on it with Valentina—you’ve probably heard of her.
The polymer layer should be 1–2 cm thick, similar to how marble is worked—with machines.
Yes, and the idea needs to be translated into the Macedonian context.
If the idea isn’t expressed through drawings or models, it’s just an assumption—a model for the author.
That was also the case with this project—I had a sketch, sent it, and they said, “Looks good, go ahead, start working.”
So the key is in organization—because in art circles, egos dominate.
If you get the project and don’t know how to execute it, no one will help you—not colleagues, unless you're a good manager and collaborator.
There’s no hierarchy—just friendship.
Many colleagues who were assigned monuments called me to come to their studios, whether private or rented, to give feedback—three key observations—because deadlines were short.
A project that should take a year is compressed into three or four months.
That’s why the sculptor often ends up confused or panicking.
Yes—depression pills, moral support—I gave ten years of that plus pills—done.
This year I worked on the Alexander the Great monument with 13 people.
That one wasn’t my project, but I worked on it with Valentina—you’ve probably heard of her.
EC: Can you describe how the construction site of your projects looked—how many people were there, and how it was organized?
You asked earlier—yes, we were 13 at first, then more joined, including technicians.
There was no hierarchy—everyone could share ideas.
We had music, darts, movies at night with a projector—it was a kind of reality show.
There were rooms for sleeping, especially for people from other towns.
It was like living on-site.
There was also clear communication and control—you needed to check the progress regularly.
Payment was also phased:
1. First phase—frame construction
2. Second—clay modeling
3. Third—plaster casting
4. Fourth—metal casting
That’s how artists get paid—otherwise regular workers couldn’t finish the job.
Technicians were paid €1,000–2,000 per month, like technical assistants.
In today’s terms, that’s like €4,000–5,000, considering inflation and stress.
These were 3–4 month contracts.
As for machines and tools—each artist had to buy or borrow them.
I had €20,000 worth of tools—pipe benders, welding equipment.
Unlike painters, who just need brushes and paint, sculptors need heavy machinery.
There was no hierarchy—everyone could share ideas.
We had music, darts, movies at night with a projector—it was a kind of reality show.
There were rooms for sleeping, especially for people from other towns.
It was like living on-site.
There was also clear communication and control—you needed to check the progress regularly.
Payment was also phased:
1. First phase—frame construction
2. Second—clay modeling
3. Third—plaster casting
4. Fourth—metal casting
That’s how artists get paid—otherwise regular workers couldn’t finish the job.
Technicians were paid €1,000–2,000 per month, like technical assistants.
In today’s terms, that’s like €4,000–5,000, considering inflation and stress.
These were 3–4 month contracts.
As for machines and tools—each artist had to buy or borrow them.
I had €20,000 worth of tools—pipe benders, welding equipment.
Unlike painters, who just need brushes and paint, sculptors need heavy machinery.
EC: Could share how your motivations as an artist reflected in the Skopje 2014 project?
MB: As I said at the start, the project required realism.
I was comfortable with that because I’d already done hyperrealistic portraits—like those in the Museum of the Macedonian Struggle.
There were sculptures from the Ottoman period—tortured Macedonian patriots like Strašo Pindžur.
Those were made of polyester and rubber—the hands and faces had implanted hair.
I also worked in the Archaeological Museum—grave reconstructions, Paeonian goddess statues, etc.
They were based on actual site photographs and drawings, reconstructed realistically for the museum.
I was comfortable with that because I’d already done hyperrealistic portraits—like those in the Museum of the Macedonian Struggle.
There were sculptures from the Ottoman period—tortured Macedonian patriots like Strašo Pindžur.
Those were made of polyester and rubber—the hands and faces had implanted hair.
I also worked in the Archaeological Museum—grave reconstructions, Paeonian goddess statues, etc.
They were based on actual site photographs and drawings, reconstructed realistically for the museum.
EC: Why realism?
MB: Because it best conveys the idea of the project.
I started with pencil drawings, horse figures—everything.
This is polymer clay.
This artist here is French—he works in caramel.
That’s clay, that’s marble—this is a coffee-colored portrait.
Let me show you—yes, this is pencil shading.
That’s what he wanted enlarged.
This is Kliment.
How do you have so much patience, man? I made one with 2 mm detail.
Yes, this one’s in Rajčica Monastery—a drinking fountain before the entrance.
Now I’m making another one inside the courtyard.
The original fountain was plain—I stylized it.
They just sent me photos—it’s being installed now.
It has wings—I designed it myself.
I started with pencil drawings, horse figures—everything.
This is polymer clay.
This artist here is French—he works in caramel.
That’s clay, that’s marble—this is a coffee-colored portrait.
Let me show you—yes, this is pencil shading.
That’s what he wanted enlarged.
This is Kliment.
How do you have so much patience, man? I made one with 2 mm detail.
Yes, this one’s in Rajčica Monastery—a drinking fountain before the entrance.
Now I’m making another one inside the courtyard.
The original fountain was plain—I stylized it.
They just sent me photos—it’s being installed now.
It has wings—I designed it myself.
EC: Now, after all that, what’s your opinion on the entire Skopje 2014 project?
MB: In general—everything built is okay.
Maybe the chief architect made odd decisions.
For example, I opposed placing the Mother Teresa fountain where it is now.
There was already a building there—now there’s no room to pass.
They almost kicked me out of the organization because of that opinion.
Two months before the project ended—I left.
My critique was that some of the architecture copied classicism poorly.
But classical styles already existed in Skopje—before the earthquake, in the theater, etc.
Maybe the chief architect made odd decisions.
For example, I opposed placing the Mother Teresa fountain where it is now.
There was already a building there—now there’s no room to pass.
They almost kicked me out of the organization because of that opinion.
Two months before the project ended—I left.
My critique was that some of the architecture copied classicism poorly.
But classical styles already existed in Skopje—before the earthquake, in the theater, etc.
EC: I just have one question, which is: when you worked on Skopje 2014, like you're working now—how did that affect your career? How did working on the Skopje 2014 project influence your career afterwards?
MB:
If they hadn’t made those works, the artist wouldn’t even have a sense of how they’re constructed.
The pieces were made at full scale, but full scale and building something that’s five meters tall are completely different things.
At university, we only worked at real-life scale, but here we’re dealing with five meters or more.
That’s a major experience for the artists.
If you have a three-meter-tall figure in contrapposto, standing on two legs, there’s a certain kind of statics involved.
I mean, if the arm is raised or there’s any kind of twist, that affects the structural design.
The construction of a standing figure and of a sculpture in motion are two different things.
So the structure—whether the figure is standing, with a raised arm, or has some sort of twist—has to be specifically designed.
That’s the kind of structure required for a three-meter figure.
The weight of the clay. We made Philip here in Macedonia—it was enlarged from a plaster model. You start from a maquette.
The arm has to be positioned like this.
If the structure isn’t good, the arm will shift from where it’s supposed to be. It'll move after casting.
There has to be a solid connection in the structure itself. It must be well thought out.
Now I suppose you learn these things there, when the opportunity arises.
There’s no professor teaching this. It’s all based on experience.
This is the model movement.
EC: Who does these calculations? The technicians?
The structural and static calculations are done by the professionals who work with the models.
The structure is covered (with mesh or a framework).
Once you have a good model—and we did.
It needs to be scaled up to three meters.
Measurements are taken from key points at a certain height.
And all of that is recorded on paper.
Now we’re measuring everything with a ruler on-site.
It needs to be multiplied by five. That’s the diameter.
That’s the diameter for 3S.
That’s the diameter for 5S.
That’s the diameter for 10S.
Ten, middle, last, nine, eight, and seven.
We have all of this on sheets of paper. We have a kind of axis layout.
And this pipe is positioned here.
And now we’re building upwards, vertically.
Now, when we look at it from a certain perspective, we’re working with levels.
We can see all these rings going upwards.
So, the calculation is done, and then the building process begins.
On the machine, you place one pipe, then another. You make a kind of structure—it’s like a skeleton.
Yes, here it is, from a specific perspective.
And here, everything has to be connected like with rings.
Then wire is added—it’s like a mesh.
And then clay is layered on top.
The clay must not be thicker than 10 centimeters.
If it's thicker than 10 centimeters, it can collapse.
And the historical dimension also has to be taken into account in the modeling.
It needs to be conical—we don’t cut it flat.
That’s just one example, but it was designed that way—same people, just thicker for older figures.